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  #31  
Old April 11th, 2015, 05:41 PM
Ensign Tzap Ensign Tzap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie View Post
First you should know about this web site:

http://www.trackballworld.com/
Yes, I know about that web site.
I have sent them a E-mail, and I'm waiting for a reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie View Post
I don't like mice :P
I stopped Mousing around in 1996, when I got my first trackball.
You used your thumb on the ball, and three buttons.
Looked kinda like this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie View Post
2016 will be the 70th birthday of the trackball.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...Americans.html
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie View Post
I've owned or used every trackball you have mentioned at one time or another.

The CH Products DT-225 and Kensington Model #64215 are the best ever made. The Kensington #K64325 is not as durable as the #64215 -- the coating on the ball melts or fades, the USB cable wiring breaks, and the ball sticks after cleaning. The scroll ring is nice though. The DT-225 and the #64215 are durable (15-20 years!), well made and have mechanical rollers and last forever. You don't need a driver with the USB DT-225 (it has DIP switches) and you can configure it with programs like X-Mouse on Windows. The problem with the Kensington #64215 is that the computer reads the rear left and right buttons as the front left and right buttons without a driver. The PS/2 interface is pretty standard so I'm going to try and write a driver for the #64215. The only other option is to replace the internal circuitry that reads the optical encoders and make your own (USB) interface.
Yeah, the #K64325 is sounding more like junk.
The DT-225 sounding like a good Trackball.
Only I'd like too try it out first, to see if it is compatible with windows 7 64-bit.
Also, by setting up the DIP switches on it, will it give me the fine speed and acceleration control that I want.

I finally got a E-mail address for Plentycom Systems.

steermouse@plentycom.jp

I've sent them an E-mail, and I'm waiting for a reply.
I'm hoping they have a PC\Windows version that I can use.{Finger crossed}


Signed: Ensign Tzap
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  #32  
Old April 11th, 2015, 07:02 PM
IPR512's Avatar
IPR512 IPR512 is offline
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I'm sure you must've looked on newegg.com, but just in case you haven't then have a look they have some neat looking trackballs.
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  #33  
Old April 11th, 2015, 09:12 PM
talltanbarbie talltanbarbie is offline
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The Kensington #64325 isn't junk -- just not durable. It's OK if you just leave it on the table and never knock it over, or don't leave it on 24/7 for weeks at a time, or drop or scratch the ball. I have three of them. The only moving parts are the ball and the scroll ring. It uses a specially coated ball and a laser LED for optical tracking. One is working fine and the other two are seven and thee years old that have the problems I've mentioned. They have a five year warranty and I'm waiting for a replacement for one of them. I might be able to replace the USB cable on the other one. Kensington is owned by ACCO office supplies now and they don't want to support the #64215. CH Products have removed the DT-225 from their web site and I'm guessing they aren't making them any longer. You can find them on EBay or other resale sites in the $300-$400 range for the USB version. I have a USB DT-225 that's about eight years old now. Works just fine on Windows 7 or 8.1 and you can use the Windows mouse/pointing device configuration or X-Mouse to adjust the speed.

I've had trackballs from Kraft, Logitech, QTronix, CH Products,etc -- all of which you've mentioned. The Kensington #64214 with all of the buttons was too bulky. The DT-225 and #64215 are the best. The only thing better would be a four button trackball with a mechanical roller ball and a scroll ring like the #K64325 -- if someone will make it.

I also have IBM PS/2 Model M keyboards -- one of which is from the computer my dad got for me when I was eight. They haven't made anything better than that either.

Last edited by talltanbarbie; April 11th, 2015 at 09:20 PM.
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  #34  
Old April 11th, 2015, 09:53 PM
Digerati Digerati is offline
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Quote:
or don't leave it on 24/7 for weeks at a time
Why? That shouldn't hurt anything.
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  #35  
Old April 12th, 2015, 02:27 AM
Ensign Tzap Ensign Tzap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPR512 View Post
I'm sure you must've looked on newegg.com, but just in case you haven't then have a look they have some neat looking trackballs.
Yeah, I've looked at Newegg & Tiger, and there are some strange designs in mice and trackballs too be sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digerati
Quote:
or don't leave it on 24/7 for weeks at a time
Why? That shouldn't hurt anything.
Yeah, leaving the Mouse or Laser Trackball on 24/7 should not effect its operation.
I do remember when Laser Mice came out, there was a problem with the life expectancy of the laser being rather low.
But now that they throttle down the laser when the mouse is not being moved, it extends the lasers life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie
CH Products have removed the DT-225 from their web site and I'm guessing they aren't making them any longer. You can find them on EBay or other resale sites in the $300-$400 range for the USB version. I have a USB DT-225 that's about eight years old now. Works just fine on Windows 7 or 8.1 and you can use the Windows mouse/pointing device configuration or X-Mouse to adjust the speed.
Apem Inc now has the rights too the DT-225.
Found out DigiKey carries two Models: one Black/USB Connector, one Grey/PS/2 Connector.
http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...T225&x=15&y=10
Quote:
Originally Posted by talltanbarbie
I also have IBM PS/2 Model M keyboards -- one of which is from the computer my dad got for me when I was eight. They haven't made anything better than that either.
I've repaired a few of the those IBM 101 Keyboards, they have a nice satisfying click when you press the keys.
But the big problem with them was the springs for each key.
They would get compressed, and the keys got harder too activate, or not work at all.
IBM came out with a repair kit for it, which replaced the springs with a higher tensile strength ones.
Only it cost about half the price of a new IBM 101 Keyboard.
I myself use 104 KeyTronic's Keyboards.
They don't click like the IBM.
But they have a nice ergonomic feel, and are easy to clean.

EDIT:

I have received a reply from Plentycom Systems.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting us.

SteerMouse only supports Mac OS X so it does not work in Windows.
I am sorry for not giving you good news in this case.

Best regards,

Yoshi

--------------- Original Message -------------------
> Hello,
>
> I'm interested in your software, but for a version that will work under Windows 7 64-Bit.
> I have a old Kensington Expert Mouse #64215 Version 5.
>
> I can not get the old Kensington MouseWorks 6.22 software to work under Windows 7 64-Bit.
>
> But like your SteerMouse, the old MouseWorks 6.22 would let me fine tune the speed
and acceleration of my trackball when installed under Windows XP 3p 32-bit.
>
> I have been looking for months now for software, or a work around that will give me back the Fine Tuning ability that MouseWorks gave me.
> So far, your software is the only thing that even comes close to what I need.
{Slams forehead on desk out of frustration!}


Signed: Ensign Tzap

Last edited by Ensign Tzap; April 12th, 2015 at 02:03 PM. Reason: New Info
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  #36  
Old April 13th, 2015, 05:24 AM
talltanbarbie talltanbarbie is offline
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The LED melts the coating on the #K64325 trackball

I've had the problem on two of my #K64325 trackballs. I don't know what sort of coating they use but after a while if you leave it connected on the computer for a long time it will start to degrade -- first in a few spots, and then a larger spot. Over time, the plastic tab supports that hold up the ball start to scratch into the coating and wears it down even more. Can send pictures if you want.
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  #37  
Old April 13th, 2015, 03:22 PM
Digerati Digerati is offline
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How does leaving it connected scratch the coating? That is a mechanical/physical contact event, not electrical. Scratching when the trackball is not being used could only happen if the trackball was constantly exposed to some form of vibration - perhaps from worn fan bearings rumbling through the case and desk, or heavy foot falls constantly shaking the desk or something similar. But that would happen if the trackball was kept in the same place whether connected to the computer or not. That seems pretty unlikely to me unless, somehow, something very abrasive managed to wedge itself in there, and there was a lot of vibration going on.

I don't need pictures - I believe you when you say the ball is scratched. I just don't believe it had anything to do with the trackball being connected to the computer. I just think these scratches occurred through wear and tear of normal use, a manufacturing defect, poor quality coating, or some combination of the three. Not because it was left connected to the computer when not being used.

I think it is important to note that a trackball is basically just an upside down mouse. It uses the exact same technology and if you disassemble a trackball or ball mouse, you will see there is nothing electrical in physical contact with the ball. So if this were a problem with trackballs, I'm pretty sure it would be seen in mice too. But I've never heard of it there either.

Quote:
Over time, the plastic tab supports that hold up the ball start to scratch into the coating
Maybe, and this is just a guess here, but maybe there was some sort of chemical reaction between the plastic used on those tabs, and the coating. Note that skin oils are corrosive. This is why you should not touch with bare fingers rare coins, historical paper documents, photographs, or your motherboard's CMOS batteries. Perhaps the skin oil left on the ball acted as a catalyst between the tabs and coating in those spots when the trackball was left unused for extended periods of time. And instead of "scratching" the ball, this chemical reaction was "etching" the ball.

That would still be a design flaw, IMO, because the designers know (or should have known) dissimilar plastics, depending on their composition, can react when they come into contact with each other. And they know (or should have known) that human skin oils are corrosive.
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  #38  
Old April 13th, 2015, 06:03 PM
talltanbarbie talltanbarbie is offline
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Not an upside down MECHANICAL mouse

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k94thz6u1bmsoms/IMAG0109.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4tqq1x9vcna6z6s/IMAG0112.jpg

The older Kensington trackballs were mechanical. The current #K64325 Expert Trackball has no bearings and no moving internal parts. Have you seen a laser mouse with the special reflective pad? Well, the ball has the same reflective coating and that's the only thing that moves. If you leave it sitting for a long time the laser LED in the trackball will heat up the ball and fade the coating and it weakens over time. Think of the hotspot beneath the Earth's crust in the Pacific that formed the Hawaiian Islands as the Pacific plate moved over it and you've got the picture. Eventually, the spots affect the plastic and as the ball moves over the support tabs, gouges develop in the coating and makes the ball catch on the support tabs in the trackball housing.

Kensington knows about this problem and they will send customers a free replacement ball.

Last edited by talltanbarbie; April 13th, 2015 at 06:42 PM.
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  #39  
Old April 13th, 2015, 06:24 PM
talltanbarbie talltanbarbie is offline
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..

Last edited by talltanbarbie; April 13th, 2015 at 06:27 PM.
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  #40  
Old April 13th, 2015, 07:15 PM
Digerati Digerati is offline
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That is something different than a plastic tab scratching the surface.
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  #41  
Old April 13th, 2015, 07:50 PM
talltanbarbie talltanbarbie is offline
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The plastic scratching happens last

I sent the worn ball back so I don't have a picture of it but that happens last after the outside coating in the ball wears in spots.

The main point I'm trying to make is this: The newer trackball is OK, but isn't as durable as the old mechanical roller balls. The #K64325 isn't made to last forever. It does has a five year warranty. Last time I looked it's in the $75-100 range. The only real performance difference between the old and the new is the smoothness and precision of the trackball movement. The mechanical ball is better. The optical ball tends to stick at first until you've used it for a while. This also happens after you clean the ball. The scroll ring is nice on the #K64325 and you get addicted to it very quickly.

If you are a klutz like me and trip over cables, drop your ball on a hard surface, use it in bed and get the wires all tangled, use it in the field out in the desert, etc. a mechanical roller trackball is better. They built the #64215 to last. I have one DT-225 that I use in in the field or travelling since the ball is partially enclosed and can't fall out. Since they are expensive I'd going to try and write a PS/2 driver for my old #64215 trackballs. I go back and forth between Linux and Windows. On Linux I can work around not having the rear buttons to work as I can emulate a middle button click (UNIX pointing devices have three buttons) for cut and paste in an XTerm window. I've not found a way to do this on Windows (that works) so far.

It's also cool to have a billiard ball for a trackball if you want

Last edited by talltanbarbie; April 14th, 2015 at 04:59 AM.
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  #42  
Old April 13th, 2015, 11:00 PM
Ensign Tzap Ensign Tzap is offline
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I agree with Digerati, in that is a manufacturing defect.

I looked at those pictures you posted.
It sorta reminds me of LaserRot that early CD's Disc's suffer from,
due too a manufacturing defect of the substrate material.

"Support Tabs", I think you mean those Plastic Beads that the ball sits on.

They get dirt in them all the time.
Which is hard to get out, can cause to bead not to roll,
and get flat spot on it from rubbing against the ball.


This Kensington Orbit Optical has got to be the worst with this problem.
I replaced 3 for a customer, and 2 for my one brother, who finally got fed up it, and got the
Kensington Orbit Trackball Mouse.

It too gets dirt in it, is hard to clean the beads.
But the beads aren't showing the wear that the Orbit Optical does,
because it has a lighter ball.
But it helps to clean it twice a week.


Signed: Ensign Tzap

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  #43  
Old June 18th, 2015, 12:50 AM
supreme11 supreme11 is offline
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I apologize for necroing this thread but I was wondering if there was any answer to the software issue for the Kensington Expert #64215. I have a #64215 and would like to be able to use it on Windows 8.1. Is it possible to use this mouse on 8.1 with standard scroll speed? I don't mind not being able to configure the buttons- I just want left and right click and the cursor speed to be standard.

Thank you for everyone's insight.
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  #44  
Old June 18th, 2015, 02:49 AM
Ensign Tzap Ensign Tzap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supreme11 View Post
I apologize for necroing this thread but I was wondering if there was any answer to the software issue for the Kensington Expert #64215. I have a #64215 and would like to be able to use it on Windows 8.1. Is it possible to use this mouse on 8.1 with standard scroll speed? I don't mind not being able to configure the buttons- I just want left and right click and the cursor speed to be standard.

Thank you for everyone's insight.
I've not even tried it on 8.1.
I have only tried it with Win 7 64-bit, and Windows loads it's own drivers that will make it work.
BUT
You have very little control over the mouse cursor's speed and acceleration.

You can try letting
Windows 8.1 detect and use one of it's drivers.
But I suspect it will work the same as in Windows 7.0.

If your running Windows 8.1 in a 32-bit version.
You maybe able too get the MouseWorks 6.22 Version of software to work, by using XP compatibility mode.

talltanbarbie, said he was working on writing a 64-bit driver.
But I haven't heard from him since his last posting here.


Signed: Ensign Tzap
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  #45  
Old June 18th, 2015, 03:11 AM
supreme11 supreme11 is offline
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I am ok with very little control over the mouse cursor and speed if it is the same speed at which it comes out of the box. I often do not change the default scroll speed and just get used to the default. I am just afraid that the speed will not be as intended even if it does get recognized by MS OS. (you were mentioning how on XP it scrolls to the top easily and on Win 7 you have to drag it multiple times- this is exactly what I don't want but I'm ok with "little control/flexibility to change" as long as its working as it should)
I'm so sad I can't use this Trackball with my PC. I just love everything about this model. I can easily just get a slimblade for about the same price but its just not the same.

Life is unfair

Last edited by supreme11; June 18th, 2015 at 03:13 AM.
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