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  #1  
Old March 4th, 2017, 12:45 AM
rlauckhardt rlauckhardt is offline
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crash

I"m useing an old e machine with visa. The computer boots up normally but after about 10 minits, shuts down. Hard drive power suopply or somwthing else?
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  #2  
Old March 4th, 2017, 02:57 AM
Appzalien Appzalien is offline
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Old can mean dried out thermal compound on the processor or heat sink fan not running as well. If your fan is running you might consider downloading an application that will allow you to monitor your CPU temps and see if that is the issue. Something like HWMonitor or Speccy (both freeware) should do the trick. Just make sure you download them from a reliable site like cpuid.com or majorgeeks.com. If that's the case you might want to ask for help in how to remove your heatsink or replace the fan and you'll need to purchase some thermal compound like Arctic Silver 5 if going that way. PC's have a safety mechanism that will shut the PC down if the temperature gets too high. You can google "safe CPU temperature range" to get an idea what you should be looking for and manually look at the fan with the case door open making sure its plugged into the motherboard as well. Motherboards have a specific and labeled place to connect the fan. Also see if you can tell if the processors heat sink fins are blocked with dust and hair and even if a fan is spinning doesn't mean its spinning fast enough to cool the CPU.

Last edited by Appzalien; March 4th, 2017 at 03:06 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2017, 05:57 PM
Digerati Digerati is offline
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Sorry but dried out thermal compound is not a problem. All the liquid solvent component of TIM (thermal interface material) is for is to allow the TIM to be pliable for application. It allows the TIM to be squeezed out of the tube and then spread evenly across the CPU die cover without any hard solid chunks getting in the way and prevent a smooth, thin application. Once a smooth, thin even layer is properly applied, it does not matter if it dries out.

It is important to remember the purpose of TIM is to fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the heat sink and CPU mating surfaces to push out any insulating air. If the TIM dries out, the solids are still left behind and still filling those microscopic pits and valleys, doing it's job.

So TIM does not need to be replaced just because it has dried out or is X number of years old. It will easily last 10, 15 years or even longer, IF undisturbed. But it MUST be replaced, however, if the cured bond between the mating surfaces has been broken. You must never reuse TIM, or add new TIM to old.

Please note there is not one single maker of TIM, heatsink, CPU, motherboard, or computer, or any study, article, or white paper that says TIM needs to be regularly replaced after a certain amount of time, or replaced if dried.

See The Heatsink Guide and note,
Quote:
Thermal compound normally does not get hard, it will stay sticky for years. But depending on the solvents used in the making of the compound, it may dry over the years. This is not a reason to worry; it will still do its job when dry, and there is no reason to replace dried thermal compound.
While a fresh application of top quality TIM might provide a few degrees of extra cooling, your temps should not be that close to thermal threshold to begin with, indication bigger problems are at hand.

So I agree completely that this could very well be a heat related issue and you should monitor your temps. I like a monitor that has a System Tray/Notification applet for easy real time monitoring. Speccy has a System Tray applet but I like Core Temp for that.

Blasting a desk fan into the open side of the computer could provide a clue if the problem is heat related.

And for sure, it is critical to make sure the interior is clean of heat trapping dust, and all fans spin freely. While in there, inspect the capacitors (the tall soda can shaped components) for leaks or bulging. While leaky capacitors are not the problem they were years ago, some electrolytic caps may still be used, and may leak. A bulging cap is a sign of excessive internal pressure that eventually leads to leaking.

Remember too, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case. The CPU fan need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow.

If your temps are fine, I would look at swapping in a known good power supply. This is important before considering replacing any other parts because everything else inside the computer depends on good, clean and stable power.
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  #4  
Old March 5th, 2017, 05:07 PM
Appzalien Appzalien is offline
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You are correct but if the paste is dry and the heatsink is twisted or moved (as can happen with an old machine in storage) it can lose its bond when no longer pliable. The Cap inspection is a good idea though.
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  #5  
Old March 5th, 2017, 06:01 PM
Digerati Digerati is offline
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Quote:
You are correct but if the paste is dry...
No. That does not matter. Again, the TIM being dry is immaterial.
Quote:
...and the heatsink is twisted or moved
That does matter as that will break the cured bond of the TIM, which as I mentioned above, will allow insulating air to get in between the mating surfaces. That would be bad.

So dried paste does not matter. The bond breaking does. And being pliable after it has cured is not the issue either. Most, not all, but most TIMs go through a curing process after it is first applied. Depending on the TIM formula, the curing occurs as a result of the TIM being heated up the first time, or as it goes through a few heat-up/cool-down cycles. This is why it is common for temps to decrease after the initial application and the computer has been used for a few hours or days, or powered on and off a few times. But again, once it has cured, it should not be reused, even if still pliable. If the bond breaks, the old TIM should be thoroughly cleaned off the mating surfaces and a fresh new layer properly applied.

So how does the cured bond get broken? Sadly, it is typically through abuse. Ironically, a common cause is by the user twisting the heatsink too hard to see if it is loose. In the process of checking if loose, they break it loose! If the heatsink fan (HSF) assembly mounting/clamping mechanism was properly fastened during HSF mounting, it will not come loose during normal use. So unless you bounce the computer off the floor during cleaning or other maintenance, there really is no need to give the cooler a twist. If it is loose, you will likely see this by monitoring your CPU temperatures.

Another common cause for the bond to break is the HSF coming loose during transport. This is especially a problem with tall, side firing aftermarket coolers that "hang" heavy off the motherboard when the computer is transported in the tower/upright position. So to avoid breaking the cured bond, or worse, the CPU socket, it is best to remove the cooler before shipping, then clean and apply a fresh new layer at the destination (just leave the CPU clamped in the socket to protect the pins and minimize exposure to ESD).

If self-transporting, the computer can be placed on its side with cooler sitting on top of CPU and motherboard - just don't go airborne over any railroad crossings!
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